Zibby is joined by the Booker Prize-winning author of Girl, Woman, Other Bernardine Evaristo to talk about her first non-fiction book, Manifesto: On Never Giving Up. The two discuss why Bernardine didn't want to write another novel after the runaway success with Girl, Woman, Other, why she's written in various genres at the different stages of her life, and which medium she plans to return to with her next project.
Transcript:
, aren't they? I thought that packed such a powerful punch. It's a short book, but it left such a strong aftertaste. It was so shocking and horrifying but just so brilliantly explored. Those are two writers who are definitely very fresh in my mind.
Zibby: I love the idea of a book leaving a strong aftertaste. I love that. That's a great way to describe it. I love it. Some books I read and I'm like, this was so powerful. Whatever I read next is not going to be even close. I'm so moved that I can't possibly -- it's like being in a very heated relationship and then going on your next date. You're like, no, I can't. Yes, books are amazing. What are you working on? Can you even say?
Bernardine: I'm working on a theater piece, actually, which I can't talk too much about. I began in theater. I returned to writing a little bit for theater. Theater was my first love. I was an actor to begin with. I love theater. I go a lot. I love theater people, actually. I miss the creative process of being in a theater company, and the collaboration and just the energy of actors in particular. When actors get drunk, they often become really extrovert and wild and crazy. I love all that. Whereas writers, when they get drunk, get very quiet and morose and even more melancholy. It's not such fun. [laughter] I miss the performance of theater people. That's not why I'm writing. I do like the whole culture around theater. I have a piece that has been commissioned. I can't say any more than that. I have to deliver it very soon, so I better get on with it.
Zibby: I love it. You're basically writing so you have more fun parties, right? That's really what it comes down to. That's hilarious. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors? I'm sure you've been asked this a trillion times. Make something up, or something that you haven't said before.
Bernardine: There is so much to say to aspiring authors. The first thing to do is do it. A lot of people want to write, and they don't actually do it. Join a class. So many classes around these days for people to join to have a taster of it and see if they want to do it. Reading is as much about writing as writing. If you're writing books, then you need to read. If you're writing nonfiction, read nonfiction. If you're writing fiction, read fiction. If you're writing poetry, read poetry. Then read everything as well. It's the equivalent of musicians not listening to music. If you want to be a writer and you don't read, you are like a musician who doesn't listen to music. That is a very stark analogy because if you don't listen to music, how can you create it other than very rudimentary kind of work? I became a writer through reading. I always say to my students, you've got to read. Unfortunately, they have a lot of competition with reading these days because they have this thing called the internet and smartphones. I despair, really.
You have students studying creative writing who don't want to read. You know that when they come in bedraggled half an hour late for the class that they’ve been up doing this TikTok thing or whatever it is they're doing -- I don't know; I dread to think -- on the internet. Especially for any young people listening, you need to read. If you find you can't concentrate, it will get better. You just have to persist with it until you can devote an hour, two hours, three hours to reading something. The third thing is, you will find your own voice and your own style eventually. Don't expect to win the Noble Prize with the first thing you ever write because it is going to be rough. You will develop your skills and your craft over years. Then eventually, hopefully, you'll be published. Some people get there sooner than others, but it doesn't matter. Don't compare yourself to anyone else. Just follow your own path. You will find your own style. That is often something that people feel they haven't got. It develops over time. It may not be a particularly literary style, but you will find the kinds of stories you want to tell and the way you want to tell them. That, first of all, has to satisfy you and then the reader. If you hate your own work, it's very likely the reader will too. That's not a very good style. Find your own way in so that you find it rewarding. Then get the feedback that you need and so on to grow and develop.
Zibby: If you hate your own writing, don't have high expectations. Back to Dickens. Lower your expectations. [laughs] Thank you so much, Bernardine. Thank you for coming on. I'm sorry again for coming on late. I'm looking forward to hearing what your theater reveal will be. That's exciting.
Bernardine: Thanks very much.
Zibby: Have a great day.
Bernardine: Bye.
Zibby: Buh-bye.
