Zibby is joined by Sean Williams to talk both about his picture book Girl Dad as well as his organization, The Dad Gang. Sean shares The Dad Gang's mission to shatter stereotypes about Black fatherhood, how their non-profit wing empowers fathers around the country, and where the company is expanding next. The two also discuss how Sean's close relationship with his daughters inspired his new children's book and the main message he hopes other fathers talk away from it. Check out @TheDadGang on Instagram!
Transcript:
Zibby Owens: Welcome, Sean. Thank you so much for coming on "Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books."
Sean Williams: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.
Zibby: I am so excited. I not only loved your picture book, Girl Dad, but the whole mission of Gang of Dads is so amazing. You're the founder. It's the coolest thing ever. I want everybody to know all about it. Tell me about starting Gang of Dads and then writing Girl Dad and your whole mission to empower Black dads and girl relationships. It's amazing.
Sean: Absolutely. It's The Dad Gang.
Zibby: I'm sorry. What did I say?
Sean: You said Gang of Dads, but it's kind of the same thing. [laughs]
Zibby: Oh, man. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.
Sean: The Dad Gang, it's like my fourth baby because I really treat it like that. In 2017, I started an organization just to change the narrative and the world's mindset of how they view Black dads. I lived in a predominantly white neighborhood at the time. It was a great neighborhood. An older woman stopped me and approached me when I had my youngest daughter. She said it was so good to see that I stuck around to be active. In that moment, I knew that she probably said that because she didn't see a lot of young Black fathers being active. It was a teachable moment. First of all, I told her, "Don't tell any dads that, ever. Don't assume that we wouldn't be active because it's the furthest thing from the truth." I took to Instagram on my social media. I knew that my friends, my brothers, and my crew, who were all also young, active dads -- if I just shared the images, I figured maybe that could change that narrative by giving more visuals. Even in media, you don't see a lot of active Black dads. There's also that lingering stereotype that we're not active. I started an Instagram page. Initially, that's all it was. It was Instagram and the Facebook and a Twitter just to share the images.
Within the year, a lot of other young Black dads caught onto the hashtags. They submitted pictures. We were circulating hundreds, thousands of pictures all year. After a year, I said, you know what? Me and my crew usually do a dad walk. We'll get together, have coffee, have brunch. It's me and my friends, probably about five to ten of us. We did get a lot of stares when we did it. I said, let's see how it would look if I invited the following. I swear, about a hundred dads and babies came out. It was incredible. We were breaking necks. It was a sight to see so many young dads pushing strollers having a good time. That's when I realized I had something much bigger than an Instagram page. Ever since, we've been doing things to support that community. We've been growing at a rapid rate. That led into us starting a nonprofit. It led into the nonprofit getting worldwide recognition, which opened the door for some other opportunities, like writing a book. It was one of my things to do, one of my goals to do. I didn't know when or how it would happen. The Dad Gang just opened the door for so many amazing things and connected me with so many amazing people and dads.
Zibby: That is amazing. So as not to get another name wrong, the name of the walk, now isn't it called the March of Dads instead of the March of Dimes?
Sean: Yes. It's the March of Dads.
Zibby: Maybe it's the head injury from getting kicked in the face in the swimming pool and having a black eye. I'm going to blame it on that. [laughter] The March of Dads, the visuals were amazing, as you said, all the strollers. It's so cool. It's just so cool. Are you raising money in that walk for your nonprofit? Then what does the nonprofit fund? What do you do with the funds raised and all of that?
Sean: What happened, basically, after the first walk -- the following is over a hundred thousand followers. These are dads and people from everywhere across the world. When we did it initially in Brooklyn, we had a hundred dads, but there were so many other dads that said, we wish we could've attended, but we don't have a stroller, or we don't have childcare for the baby, or whatever reasons. A lot of dads couldn't attend. While our mission was to change a narrative or the stereotype or the visuals behind Black and Brown fathers, we realized there were other needs outside of changing our stereotype. That's when we realized, let's add a nonprofit piece to this whole scenario so that we can get the strollers to these dads. What happened was we started a nonprofit called Random Acts of Dadness. Our crew is The Dad Gang. Random Acts of Dadness was the nonprofit. When we raised the money, the first thing we did was supply over twenty to thirty thousand dollars in strollers to dads all across New York. That was Brooklyn, New York, the Bronx. That was Queens. We distributed dad packages, care packages with baby supplies, dad supplies, and strollers. We got Buy Buy Baby involved. We got Target involved. We got Walmart involved.
Pretty much ever since then, we've been just doing that. Sometimes we might set up a day of panels and discussions and workshops for new dads who need to learn how to swaddle. The thing is, there's not a lot of people paying attention to dads and supporting them in that journey. A lot of focus goes onto taking care of mom and baby and helping mom through the pregnancy, but dads are -- we're going through a struggle too and learning how to do these things too. We're just trying to give support to new dads and dads who need it, whether it's childcare, whether it's financial advice or financial support, even. During the pandemic, we were giving dads upwards of five thousand dollars for dads who have lost their jobs and giving them a shopping spree with Walmart. It's a lot of pressure to provide and maintain. That feeling of being the head of the household when you don't have a job, it's hard. We step in just to give them whatever support we can. We like to say with the organization, we're support by any means necessary. What do we have to do? We'll get it to them. There's no real specific program in what way we can help. If there is a family that needs and they get in contact with us via our website or through a friend, we'll get some support to them.
Zibby: That is amazing. Then do you hear back from the dads after? This changed my life, blah, blah, blah?
Sean: Oh, my god. When we did that stroller giveaway, we got so many testimonials of, dude, you don't know how it feels to be able to support their family in this way. For dads, again, as the head of the household, when you can't support them in a way, you feel less than. You feel like you're not doing your job as Dad even though it's more than just adding support. We've heard testimonies. We've even got testimonies of, they expanded their family because we were able to support them. We have Dad Gang babies. [laughs] We have people who weren’t ready to be parents, but after seeing how active and how much fun we had doing what we were doing as active dads, they were like, you know what, I think we're ready for this. Five years later, we have people saying, we had this baby because you guys introduced parenthood to us in a way that was so heartwarming and welcoming. It seemed fun to do and a lot less pressure and a lot less scary, as the world may have made it seem. A lot of testimonials come in, which just fuels us even more to keep on going and keep on doing what we do.
Zibby: Now as a mom, I want to steal resources. I'm like, wait, what are all the secrets you're telling dads over there? What should I know? [laughter]
Sean: You guys already know it. Trust me. It's nothing new under the sun, but just talking specifically to them, to a really underserved or under -- no one's talking to them. I feel like we've become that voice to them, that microphone for them.
Zibby: It's really amazing. Then tell me about how it became a book.
Sean: Girl Dad. I have three kids, two of which are daughters, my oldest kids.
Zibby: How old are all of them?
Sean: I have a seventeen-year-old, who is my best friend. Then I have a six-year-old. It was interesting because in changing the narrative of Black and Brown dads, there's these subcategories of views that people have. What is a girl dad? One of the videos that went viral for me was my youngest daughter painting my nails and putting makeup on. This was not too long after Kobe and his daughter, that tragic accident happened. When he said girl dad, the hashtags started to bubble. A lot of guys said, you know what, it's a shame that some dads think that the only way to pass on a legacy is through a son. It's very funny because when you have a girl, you really don't even think that I can't extend my legacy through my daughter. I'm on this whole mission to change these narratives. It was just another conversation to have. Me being a dad of two girls, it just popped in my head. You know what? That's also another topic that we can address, especially for younger dads as they're developing their relationship with their girl.
We don't want them to think, aw, man, I wish I had a son so he could play ball just like me. I wish I had a son so he could be a, insert any profession, a pilot, a whatever the case may be. Instead, embrace that relationship that you have. Give it all you've got. Do whatever it takes to enjoy that fun relationship because it is part of your legacy. That's how Girl Dad came to be, heavily inspired by Kobe and his daughter and then just the unique relationship, me seeing how much dads really connected with, sometimes I feel funny when my daughter puts on -- it could be whatever. For me in that moment, she wanted to paint my nails. I really didn't care. It was fun for her. It was fun for me. The nail polish comes off right after. Don't feel a way about it. Just dive right in. Enjoy that relationship because it does a lot more for that child and for you than to feel like you can't do certain things because you're a male. We just have this whole weird stigma. It was a really fun book to write. I had them help me with it. I would sit them down and be like, "What are the most fun things that we do from our relationship?" They would just name a bunch of things. That's pretty much what went into the book.
Zibby: Wow. That's really awesome. There was a destigmatization of pink bows effort in the book. Like it. Like it a lot.
Sean: Thank you. One of those things.
Zibby: How did you become this visionary entrepreneur? Where did this come from? Where'd you grow up? What's your story?
Sean: I think it was a culmination of so many different aspects of my life. I grew up in Brooklyn. When I got to college, I was heavily involved in a fraternity doing community service and mobilizing my brothers at my school. I served as the president of that organization for a while. In doing that, I just knew how to build community and get people together. By the time we got to doing a walk for The Dad Gang, it was like second nature. A lot of my best friends were also part of my fraternity. We knew how to mobilize large groups of men. That was just a thing. I also served as a creative director for about eight years. I freelanced as a graphic and web designer for five years before that, so I knew how to put things together and market our brand in a way that was appealing to whatever audience I was reaching out to. By the time The Dad Gang came about, it was more a mix of the skills that I had honed over these years and just my passion for being a dad. As a creative, I spent a lot of my time at home. I was working from home while on daddy duty. I was never really off daddy duty, per se, even in my professional career. By the time The Dad Gang came around, it was a mix of all of these different things. It led me to a space where I didn't have to do anything else. This is what I did for a living, run these events, do this fundraising, end up writing a book, and just getting together. It was all around my kids. It just worked hand in hand.
Zibby: It's awesome. I feel like I've tried to do something similar. I include my kids in everything I do. I did a children's book with them. There are some parallels. I haven't done a walk. I've done some retreats and events and things like that. It's so neat to involve kids and to have them see you be a creator in some way and add something back to the world and make it a little bit better. I feel like I'm often working on that. I'm like, this is a mission. Do you feel like that, too, and that they're inspired to do the same?
Sean: Absolutely. The funny thing is, even in making content for The Dad Gang, we're not doing anything outside of what we would normally do in a day. If I'm taking them to the park, if I'm coloring, whatever I'm doing, I try with the content that we push out -- it's not staged. Most of the time, they don't even know I'm working while I'm recording or doing what I'm doing. By the time it came down to writing a book, it just seemed like a project that I would always do, and then it ended up in a book. It hasn’t been very difficult for me to involve the kids in what I'm doing. It's a little bit more hands-on or different when I'm organizing a dad walk or a fundraiser. They're not too heavily involved there. It just worked. It really worked in my favor. I'm a lucky dad. I'll tell you that.
Zibby: The content that you have is really fantastic. I love the one with the little baby. He's -- I don't even know how to describe this -- flexing and saying, grrr! The dad's like, grrr! He's so strong. She's this little thing. Oh, my gosh, so cute. The one doing sit-ups on the ground, this little tiny baby, oh, my gosh.
Sean: You can get lost on that page. I'm posting the content, and I'm laughing and crying all day.
Zibby: How great. Isn't that the goal of all shared stories, making people feel and making people connect? It's really great. Where do you want this to go? Do you have a dream? Is it just a vision? We'll see what comes next?
Sean: The mission was very ambitious, to say I could change the way the world views Black fatherhood. I feel like once we changed it for one person, it's a success. I didn't start this to gain worldwide recognition; just, did I change that narrative? I think we're well on our way to doing that. In realizing that dads needed support and starting the nonprofit, the goal now is to open centers and do what we do across multiple cities. We've done walks in Atlanta, in New York, in DC. We're gearing up to do one in LA and other places within the country. We want to take it across to Africa and around the world. Ideally, we would love to have a center in locations where we can really give these guys, these dads these experiences and get hands-on with them, whether it's workshops, whether it's family planning, financial literacy. I think it's a really important thing to have and a resource to have for dads. That would be the goal. That's the major goal, to have those centers opened in multiple places and multiple cities and multiple areas around the world.
Zibby: It seems like you've gotten, first of all, so much press on this, but also the attention of highly influential people over your Dope Dad of the Year Awards or Dope Dad Awards. Tell me about that.
Sean: We started that in 2021 after the pandemic. A lot of the dads that we post are actual content creators as well. In the pandemic, they kept on going. I was so inspired because it's the easiest content for me to find. A lot of it is content that we're not creating. We're resharing content that these dads make. By 2020, we had a lot of partners. We had a lot of organizations that were down to support what we were doing. We wanted to highlight dads who were just nonstop, stayed helping us and giving us content. This is the content that really changed that narrative, letting us into your house, letting us into your homes, talking about certain topics, sharing their parenting style, their fathering style with the following. We wanted to highlight them. We selected about ten to fifteen dads who we felt were really killing it. We went to Atlanta. It was in a nice restaurant. It was just an amazing thing.
Again, you don't need a trophy to be a good dad, but these dads were going above and beyond daddy duty for their families. They were going above and beyond what it takes to raise their family and sharing. It was changing the lives of so many dads in the following that we just wanted to give them some real recognition and inspire them and motivate them to keep on doing what they're doing. This year was our second year doing it. It's funny because everything gets even bigger and better every year that we do it. All the programs from the walk to the Dad Awards to the stroller giveaway, all of these events, it's like we could just duplicate it the next day, the next year and the year after that and the year after that because it doesn't stop. There's always going to be more dads. There's always going to be more content. There's always going to be more reasons to celebrate and shine a positive light on these guys. That's what we're doing.
Zibby: That's what I was thinking about moms. Somebody, at one point, said -- a lot of my content has to do with books. Not just one person, many people said to me, don't do moms. That immediately leaves so many people out who love books. I'm like, you know, if I could corner the mom market, I'd feel good about that. Everybody's welcome to listen. This is not just content for moms. It's a naturally recycling audience. There's such a need among parents. It's not just moms. This need for connection when you're going through something incredibly difficult with no guidebook and constant issues to solve -- I feel like every day is a thing. I'm like, I don't know, how should I handle this? How should I handle that? Sometimes just a quick chat with somebody or a fellow mom who's an entrepreneur and a mom and who gets it and is like, yeah, it's really hard when X, Y, Z happens, it's enough to keep you going. You're doing that for a hundred thousand-plus people. It's really awesome.
Sean: A lot of dads or a lot of people in general say, why don't you expand and do this? I'm like, you know what? When you start getting good and targeting a specific audience, everybody always wants you to expand, but that's the reason that you're able to talk to them. You know what I mean?
Zibby: I know.
Sean: We focused on these guys for a reason and this audience for a reason, because they weren’t being spoken to. They weren’t getting the attention. Now that we're focused on them and they're getting the attention, everybody wants us to expand. We can't talk to everybody. We can't focus on everyone and every issue. I think we have a good space. I think we're pointed in the right direction. We're making some good progress with the dads. That's what we're going to keep on doing. There's always going to be more.
Zibby: I feel like you should have a show. There should be a documentary. There should be a show. You must have something like that percolating in some way.
Sean: Absolutely. We've been documenting a lot of our journey. We also have a podcast coming out soon to share about what we're doing and to talk about those topics in real time. It's a thing. This year, we were actually going to do an exhibit to show Black fatherhood and how it's changed in media, why the stereotype even started, and how we're not only combating the stereotype, but the fact that the stereotype is actually false that Black dads are inactive or deadbeats. It's actually not even true. The fact is, when it was stacked up -- they actually did a study. The CDC did a study where they scaled -- it was a measure of all the ethnic groups. Whether we were in the home or not in the home, married or not married, Black dads were one of the most active ethnic groups in that study. It's just interesting, the information that goes around and what people hear and what people believe versus what the actual reality is. We're trying to find different ways of doing that. A documentary would be nice. A podcast, definitely. An exhibit, I thought was a really creative way to do it. I think we'll be able to do that in 2023.
Zibby: That's awesome. You're thinking museum or some sort of center?
Sean: You know, I don't -- I can't -- the world is always doing what it --
Zibby: -- We'll see. Okay, fine.
Sean: It's going to be fun.
Zibby: I love all your merch, all the Dope Dad stuff. As I told you, my son was like, "You can't say dope. I can say it." He can barely say it, but you know what I mean. All the fabulous merch you have. I just love the attention and recognition for parents, full stop. It's just amazing. Those relationships are so special.
Sean: It's been an amazing journey so far, I have to say.
Zibby: Sean, I'm so glad to have met you. I'm sorry again for my mistake at the beginning. This is what happens.
Sean: Oh, no, you're fine.
Zibby: I just love what you're doing. I am so energized by it, seeing you do this and killing it. It's really awesome. It's inspiring to me.
Sean: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. I meet so many amazing people like yourself. Sometimes it's really unbelievable, the people I come in contact with and the exposure and the recognition from this whole thing. It wasn't the plan, but it is nice. It is nice to meet these people and get this type of support. Thank you so much for having me.
Zibby: Thank you for coming. Buh-bye.
Sean: Thank you. Bye.
